Johnny Herbert: Norris deserved 2025 WDC - I always knew he could become a champion from his karting days, Verstappen showed why he’s the best in Abu Dhabi, Hamilton is starting to tarnish his legacy

Speaking to NewBettingSites, three-time Grand Prix winner Johnny Herbert was full of praise for his fellow Brit, Lando Norris, after he won the 2025 World Drivers' Championship on the final race weekend of the season.

The 61-year-old also praised Max Verstappen for not turning Abu Dhabi into a ‘scrappy’ race and showed the world he’s still be fastest driver on the grid.

Herbert is worried for Lewis Hamilton, though, saying how he’s starting to tarnish his legacy with his performances at Ferrari.

Read the full interview below:

Q. Lando Norris has done it. The 11th Brit to be world champion. There was no real drama apart from Yuki Tsunoda’s manoeuvre on Norris. What’s your reaction to Norris winning it and what it means for him and what it means for British racing?

JH: “I’m very happy for Lando [Norris] because in the early part of his career there was always a bit of criticism, was always a bit of negativity around him, with critics saying that he needed to get tougher and he needed to play a game within the team.

“His honesty has meant he has at times been his own worst critic. And he’s been criticised for that! That, though, is part of his character and being a critic of yourself can be a very positive thing and he has shown that because he's hard on himself he's been able to push himself.

“Is this the same giggly, emotional Lando that we first saw when he came into Formula 1? No, it's not. It was when he had Daniel Ricciardo come on board with McLaren in 2021, that was the real start of not being friends with his teammate.

“That was a very positive step mentally for him to be able to think about Lando and only about Lando.

“All the champions that I've raced against and been around have got a very similar demeanour, which is they're not your friend.

“That is where they've always got that competitive edge to try and bring you down and with Oscar, in a very similar mindset in many respects, he's been able to bring him down this year.

“He's had the same opportunities, he's had the same ups and the same downs, but it was the timing of Lando's ups that has allowed him to win the World Championship.

“He's been able to get the best, probably the most important thing, the best out of himself, and I think that is something that has made him get to a position where the championship was on.

“He still had one thing that was still an issue, which was his starts, but he's been able to overcome them. It's taken a little bit of time to do that, but he has matured and found a way of being able to make those starts count.”

Q. Is the key difference then his mental toughness, which he's managed to develop over this season and shut out the noise, shut out the critics?

JH: “It’s a situation that everybody peaks at different times in their lives in whatever sport. When Max [Verstappen] came into F1, there was a boom, a bang and a crash, and a wallop had you knew he had arrived. He had that mental strength straight away. Lando [Norris], in contrast, did not.

“He and George [Russell] came up together, and George was probably slightly more mature in many respects. But I think what's happened, which has been very interesting to me, it's actually swapped over. I think it seems as if Lando has matured quicker than George.

“That has allowed him to have the capacity to absorb all the issues and pressures that you have in top-line sport, especially in Formula 1. And that athletic brain has allowed him to blossom and carry the challenge of the championship and both Oscar [Piastri] and Max under pressure.

“Max said this weekend it was probably the best that he's ever driven, especially this year, and if that is the case, that again shows how much Lando has improved.

“The mentality of Lando is a strength that is still only going to get better. He's going to learn from this experience. And going forward it's going to be a very positive experience because he's achieved his goal and that will only make him even stronger and better for next season.”

Q. Those late points in Qatar did make the difference in the end, didn’t they? Otherwise, Max Verstappen would have been champion.

JH: “You can always look back and say, well, if this happened, I would have been in a better position, or if that had happened it would have been a much tougher situation. But that's the way racing is.

“What happened in Zandvoort was not fair on Lando [Norris], but that's racing. That's how racing is. The Papaya rules that were coming into effect every now and again didn't help the championship either. What happened in Monza was only a little bit more positive for Lando.

“He used it in a much more powerful way to enable himself to win those very dominant races in Mexico and Brazil, for example, and that was really the catalyst by which he put himself in a position where he was the guy that had the advantage and was being chased by Oscar [Piastri] but mainly Max [Verstappen].

“But did Lando crack? Did he have a bad start? No, he didn't, He got a good start again In Abu Dhabi. His last four starts have actually been very good. The worst one was in Las Vegas where he lost out to Max. But it wasn't a bad start, it just wasn't as good a start as Max has got. All that has shown his ability to work things out.

“Was there a key moment, a key drive, a key performance or something that he did that you could look back and say, actually that probably was the trigger for it. From then on, it was coming his way?

“The trigger definitely because at that point in the season it was Oscar who was one who was dominating the scene. But it was Holland. I think that really did hurt. But it really did hurt in a positive way. It galvanised him.

“It suddenly switched him on. It was a negative that turned into a massive positive. And at that point in the season, Oscar was way ahead. But he got stronger.”

Q. What will McLaren have learned from this, if anything, as they plot 2026 and what to do with drivers?

JH: “I think there's going to be fairness at McLaren and I'm one of those who think fairness is always a positive thing because it just shows who will be the best. So that support mechanism is there for both of them.

“You can always find certain races or certain incidents where you say that favoured Lando and that favoured Oscar. I know Oscar felt there was a bit more support for Lando.

“I don't think [McLaren supporting Lando Norris more] is the case because at the end of the day it's down to that raw pace. It does show McLaren have the right ingredients for that support.

“The one thing I still think could have bitten them much more in the backside than it did were those decisions, what happened in Monza for example, or what happened in Hungary last year. Those situations should not really come into play.

“You've just got to let it flow, let it happen and the drivers will respond in the way that they feel fit. In Abu Dhabi Lando drove it in a very smart way as did Oscar who tried very hard to put Max under pressure.

“So, it was a double win for McLaren in many respects because it was putting pressure on the guy that was putting pressure on McLaren which was Max.

“Lando drove the perfect race and did everything he needed to do. He was always just enough ahead of Leclerc. He knew Charles' tyres were going to go off and he made the perfect strategy and drive.”

Q. What was Lando's best drive of the season?

JH: “Lando Norris’ best drive this season was Mexico. It was just such a dominant race from the qualifying to race performance that he had.

“It was just as perfect a race as I have seen from Lando. It shows a sign again of that moving up in his performance.”

Q. Where does he need to improve to get even better?

JH: “The one issue Lando [Norris] is probably going to have to work on most is those little mistakes which we saw in Qatar for example where we didn't have quite strong this weekend.

“That's just one little piece of the jigsaw that's probably not fully in its place at the moment. If you do the whole season as a whole, the second part of the season was definitely very strong and very dominant.

“Lando's career is now all ahead of him; he's only just 26 and he can only get better and he's joined an elite band of men.”

Q. Where do you rank him and what do you think his potential is now?

JH: “It's one of those situations when everyone's saying, Lando [Norris] is one of the greats of F1. But is he going to get better? I believe he will do. As Max [Verstappen] said at the weekend, it's the best he's driven, so he's still improving.

“Lando is a late bloomer, and I think it would be probably getting towards his 30s where he will peak. The biggest thing you get through the experiences of winning a world championship is that it will just push him onto another level mentally. And he will only become more and more powerful.

“Yes he’s only 26, but I think there are those four or five years when you're at your very peak. Where is he in the world championship table of winners? Well, he's very high up.

“If you go back to what Jimmy Clark did for example in the 60s, he was quite a very rare driver. But it was a very different time. There was no social media, there was no media as such, it wasn’t as intense as it is now. So the drivers have to absorb a hell of a lot more external pressure.

“He has found the right ingredients that give him the right feelings when he gets into the car, and that's only a powerful thing. We definitely haven't seen the very best of him. But we've always got to remember we're talking Max of being one of the best we have ever seen, and he’s given Max a pretty hard time this year.

“That just shows that he's moving in a direction and he's actually making Max think. That’s very powerful and that just shows how good Lando has become.”

Q. Is the sky the limit in a way? Can we be looking at a multi-world champion?

JH: “The potential for Lando [Norris] to be a multi-world champion is there, for sure. He's got more than enough talent to be able to achieve that. But of course, you always need the equipment underneath you to achieve that. Now, Max, we know, is probably the best at the moment. But he wasn't able to achieve a world championship just because the car wasn't able to give him exactly what he needed.

“It shows what level you have to be at even if you have the best car. You still have to achieve on your own in that cockpit.

“But it is only you that's in that moment. No one else. That is why you have to dig deep to be able to get the best out of yourself. If they get the car right for next year, he'll be able to win the World Championship again.”

Q. Tactically, could Red Bull have done anything differently? Say, pitted late so they could have bunched the pack and allowed Charles Leclerc to catch up with Lando Norris?

JH: “I am so pleased that Max [Verstappen] finished the race in the way that he did. He achieved the race win, he gave it his best shot, and it didn't quite work out for him. If it had turned into backing the whole pack up, there would have been some really debatable moves.

“It would have been messy and scrappy. To me, that would not have been the way to win a world championship. I'm glad he did it in such a pure way. He was showing why he’s the best.”

Q. Max Verstappen has missed out on a fifth straight title. Will he be frustrated or can he just take great pride in the way he's come back from nowhere?

JH: “Max [Verstappen] couldn't have done any more. He said that is the best he’d driven. He has moved to a different stage in his life, with the family, with the kids on the scene, things have sort of changed for him, but he hasn't changed him on the circuit as far as the speed and the competitiveness.

“But what Abu Dhabi showed me was the pure racer that Max can be. We've had those little moments where he’s had the elbows out massively. He didn’t need to do that because he is so damn good.

“In Abu Dhabi, he didn't play any silly games, won the race, and said he'd driven the best he has in his entire career. And I give him a lot of credit for saying that and doing that. He deserves all the applause and credit that he gets because there's a ‘WOW’ factor.”

Q. Without Max Verstappen’s incredible comeback in the last three or four months, we wouldn't have had this end-of-season drama. McLaren would have been crowned a long time ago. It's all down to one man, isn't it? It's Max Verstappen.

JH: “Max [Verstappen] single-handedly kept the season alive.

“It's Max and the great Max that he is. It’s the strength of his driving that dragged Red Bull into a situation of winning those races when earlier in the year he’d said Red Bull were never going to win another race! Classic Max.

“It's Max who absolutely shook up that team and made them realise what they needed to do.”

Q. In the final analysis, will Max Verstappen be pleased for Lando Norris or is that not what an all-conquering world champion would ever contemplate?

JH: “Max [Verstappen] will be disappointed that he didn't win it but sort of happy that Lando [Norris] did achieve it because of the friendship that they do have.

“But Max will be very much thinking, ‘I'm going to make sure I get that world championship back.’

“So, there’s not going to be any resting on your laurels for Lando. Max will be saying enjoy it while you can, because he’s coming again.”

Q. Do you think Max Verstappen will get to seven or even eight titles?

JH: “Every single driver on that grid should be worried about their seat for 2027. Because Max [Verstappen] is going to be going for one of those big seats unless Red Bull absolutely do an amazing job next season.

“That's the power that Max has. He has this massive ability to make people look in their mirrors when he's coming through the pack.

“He intimidates you and the intimidation is something he's still going to use when he gets to the point where he's going to pick and choose where he wants to go.

“That is going to be something that the drivers will once again fear. It's far from over as far as the next World Championship that's going to be coming his way.

“It’s a guarantee for me there's going to be another one, two or maybe even three or four World Championships coming in. He's the guy that can pick and chose and is the dictator of the driver market.”

Q. How do you feel about Oscar Piastri overall? A level of sympathy? Or is it just a case that he's got to learn to deal with the flaws?

JH: “I don’t feel sympathy for Oscar [Piastri], because he's achieved a great season, finishing as he has. It was a strong end to the season as well. had that massively strong start and everything seemed to be in his favour.

“But for some reason, he let it fall through his fingers. The quality that we had seen evaporated. It was going so well at that point. A lot of people always talk about his mental strength. But actually, I think it's the mental strength that probably needs to be strengthened.

“He missed a slam dunk. He has to get stronger. In the situation he was in, it should have been a done deal. Max would not allow that to have happened. Nor did Lando at the end of the day. He grew and took on the mantle of being the team number 1.”

Q. Zak Brown said Oscar Piastri will be a world champion at McLaren one day. Do you believe that?

JH: “Yes, Oscar [Piastri] has got all the ingredients [to be a world champion] for sure. There were those races where he wasn't there and went missing. If he had this mental strength that everybody talks about that would not have come into play.

“He was in a car that was able to achieve those race wins. It a sign and I am sure Mark Webber is onto this, that he needs to make sure that that does not happen again”

Q. Can you see a scenario where Oscar Piastri will look to move on?

JH: “At this moment in time, I can see Oscar Piastri looking to move on from McLaren. As things stand, he may feel so frustrated that he wants to look elsewhere.

“But why would you want to move on from a team that actually can supply you the car to win the World Drivers Championship.

“If he moved to Ferrari for example, there is no guarantee at all that you're going to get a chance of being world champion. If he moved to Mercedes, there's no guarantee. The team that's in the moment is McLaren and arguably Red Bull.

“Those are the only places that you're probably going to be able to get a World Championship. But one of them has Max in the seat.

“But would he want to go into that environment? Is he at a stage in his career where he needs to do a risky move like that? For Oscar, he's there and it's basically on his plate, or it's on both of their plates.”

Q. Looking back at 2025, how would you rate the season as a whole?

JH: “It was a bloody good season. We had Mercedes have some race wins, had a young Antonelli coming into play, had a young Bortoleto coming into play, we've got Hadjar who did a brilliant job, who's obviously moving up next year.

“We've got a young generation of drivers that have come in and are very exciting.

“Then we had McLaren winning the Constructors Championship for the first time in many, many years. Then they get the double. Then we had Max suddenly in the mix.

“There was a massive mix up all the way through and some very exciting races had by the guys at the front end but also with those youngsters who really did sort of shine during the season.

“So, there's a lot of excitement for me during this season because we've had such a variety of drivers giving me the ‘Wow ‘factor.

“We've got a really good bunch of drivers who have respect for each other but are very much focused on only winning races.”

Q. Who was your unsung hero of 2025?

JH: “I think out of everybody, Carlos Sainz and Williams were my unsung heroes. It was nice to see Williams getting themselves in a position where they could get those podiums.

“It was Carlos who became the guy who was achieving those podiums that Williams haven't had for a long time.”

Q. Who was the breakout rookie of 2025?

JH: “The one that impressed me most because in his first race he went off when he was on his way to the line, was Isack Hadjar. He’s my breakout rookie of 2025.

“Then he really was consistently around that tip six in qualifying.

“His racing was brilliant as well. He really did raise the bar which was very impressive after what he went through in Melbourne.”

Q. Carlos Sainz really does lift a team wherever he goes, doesn’t he? Ferrari must be regretting letting him go. Has Sainz got a world championship in him if Williams get the car right?

JH: “I have a lot of respect for what James Vowles has done as team principal, because he's put them in a very strong position. He's put them in a position for the future. He’s bringing on board the right personnel, but he's also brought in the right drivers. And Carlos [Sainz] seems to be a massive addition with all the experience that he's had in recent times at Ferrari. We saw how good he was up against Charles Leclerc for example.

“It took him a little bit of time to get comfortable with the team and the car but then once again, in the second part of season, he really started to come alive again.

“So, if they were able to give him the car that he needs, if you stuck him in a McLaren, he would have been going for the World Championship.

“He’s someone who flies a little bit more under the radar because he's not as verbal a driver or as in-your-face as Max [Verstappen] is, for example. He just gets on with the job, very much like his father. He’s got a very good work ethic and that work ethic is something that is very important within a team structure.

“It’s also very important for him as a driver because when he has that opportunity to get a good result he's always more than capable of being able to do that.

“I hope he gets a real chance of getting in a car that would give him that shot of the world championship because I think he would achieve it very professionally.”

Q. Which team has been the most disappointing in 2025?

JH: “Unfortunately, the most disappointing team of 2025 has got to be Ferrari! There's always so many expectations and so much want for them to get back to those winning ways. But for whatever reason the team can't seem to shake itself into a situation of having all the right ingredients from the car, from the engine, from the internal structure, to what they needed when it comes down to strategy. They've got the drivers. That's the thing, they've got the drivers.

“I know Lewis [Hamilton] has had his struggles, but they've got Charles [Leclerc] who's really driven the wheels off that car. They seem to be so up and down, here and there, you don't actually know where you are half the time.

“So disappointing once again but more disappointing than I was probably expecting. I thought there was just going to be this refreshing leap in performance because they knew that Lewis was coming on board, but it didn't materialise.

“There’s now a reset for 2026, so let's hope that reset is something that brings them back into contention.”

Q. Lewis Hamilton thanked the team for everything this year at the end of Abu Dhabi and no one replied? That says a lot, doesn’t it?

JH: “Lewis [Hamilton] changed his engineer once this season. It was obvious for everybody it wasn’t working. The big difficulty that Lewis has is how he turns around his worst-ever year in F1. When you see him interviewed, it is a Lewis I have never seen before. He just seems to be completely lost and crushed.”

Q. Can Lewis Hamilton’s comments at the end in Abu Dhabi be taken as his farewell to the team, much like Mo Salah’s outburst at Liverpool? And is he in danger of tarnishing his legacy a little bit?

JH: “Yes, Lewis [Hamilton] is in danger of tarnishing his legacy. And this is probably horrible to say, but it's probably the start of that. It's been so poor and it's been so poor for everybody to see for him.

“It’s not as if it's happened to both drivers. It’s only happened to one and there is a point, and it's a very hard point to know when to choose to stop?

“Nico Rosberg gets a lot of criticism for bowing out like he did winning the World Championship, saying enough is enough, and left on a high.

“Then you have others that hang on and never get that opportunity ever again.

“The more you sort of try and think I can do, sometimes you need to take three steps back and accept, ‘No. It’s not the same as it was.’

“That sadly seems to be here Lewis. It’s not just a few back weekends. It’s been pretty much every weekend.”

Q. Can you interpret Lewis Hamilton’s words as a valedictory speech?

JH: “I could see Lewis Hamilton’s words as a farewell speech, yes.

“You've got to be honest to yourself. And if you do honestly feel that you have no idea of what you need to do to get out of the doldrums and get around the problem, then why carry on?

“He was always able to find a way, was always in the fight, always there. He had the will and the ability. Now he doesn’t.

“So, I could see him choosing to say, ‘Actually, that’s it. I've had one of the best careers of any driver in F1 and I can leave a happy chap.’

“So, I could see maybe that could be a thought process. And maybe he has a sit down with Anthony and his mum, to discuss, you know, where he is at.

“Some of his interviews in the pen, where he’s quite literally not answering any questions at all. It's just in this horrible dark place. And I find it very uncomfortable. It's a place I've never seen him in before. And it just makes it very uncomfortable. Then you see what happens on the track and then you get a double slap in the face.

“To me it's clear that he's not the Lewis Hamilton he once was. Everything seems harder, way harder, whereas it was simple. He never even had to think about it. It just happened.

“It’s gone. Will it come back? I’d be very surprised.”

Q. You’ve known Lando Norris for a long time, but did you always think there was the potential to be a world champion?

JH: “Yes, Lando Norris always had the potential to be a world champion. You don't achieve what he did in karting and be involved with the world championships like he was and then rise through the ranks. It's not a surprise that he's got himself into this position and it's lovely seeing that chuckling young man turn into that totally professional driver who did what he did at the weekend.

“It's no surprise that he has been able to achieve this. I am pleased for the whole family, especially his mum. She is one of those characters who, when she goes to the races, she's at the back of the garage with her head in her hands, worrying like hell.

“So, for her to have that and see the emotion that they all had with the sisters and brother after the race was wonderful.”

Q. What can we expect in 2026? Two or three-second gaps in qualifying, more overtaking, one team establishing superiority, DRS is gone, what's going to replace that?

JH: “In the normal history of Formula One, whenever there's been a shift in the changes in the rules and the way that the cars are put together, there's always one that dominates and dominates by one or two or so seconds. Mercedes are the one that everybody was talking about, were way ahead of everybody else.

“They were probably a year ago. They will be very strong out of the blocks. McLaren should not be too far behind.

“From what I understand Red Bull are going to be struggling because of the power unit that they have got.

“One of the biggest shifts I suppose from a racing point of view now that DRS has gone, we are going to have active wings, controlled electronically.

“It’ll be very interesting to see how the drivers react to that, how they are, how they feel with the car.”

ENDS